{"id":141641,"date":"2020-12-25T19:00:48","date_gmt":"2020-12-25T16:00:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/en.buradabiliyorum.com\/filmmakers-talk-about-the-cat-conundrum-more-film\/"},"modified":"2020-12-25T19:00:48","modified_gmt":"2020-12-25T16:00:48","slug":"filmmakers-talk-about-the-cat-conundrum-more-film","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/filmmakers-talk-about-the-cat-conundrum-more-film\/","title":{"rendered":"#Filmmakers Talk About the Cat Conundrum & More \u2013 \/Film"},"content":{"rendered":"

“#Filmmakers Talk About the Cat Conundrum & More \u2013 \/Film<\/strong>”<\/p>\n

\n

\"Soul<\/p>\n

Soul<\/strong><\/em>\u00a0marks another step forward for Pixar into fascinating narrative storytelling that is not only meant for young children. In fact, this may be the least kid-centric movie they\u2019ve made in quite some time.<\/p>\n

Don\u2019t get me wrong \u2013 the movie is very good and has plenty of the typical Pixar qualities we\u2019ve come to expect from that studio. But a film about a middle school band teacher who finally gets his big break in music, only to quickly fall into a manhole and be whisked away to another plane of existence to learn how souls work? That\u2019s pretty damn ambitious, and it\u2019s yet another example of how the studio often pushes beyond the most basic version of a story when one of their films is making its way through Pixar\u2019s rigorous process of building, breaking down, and rebuilding a movie to get it right.<\/p>\n

A few weeks ago, we spoke with Pete Docter<\/strong> (director\/story and screenplay by), Kemp Powers<\/strong> (co-director\/story and screenplay by), and Dana Murray<\/strong> (producer) about the clash between creativity and pragmatism, Soul<\/em>\u2018s excellent score, and the thought process behind a plot decision which temporarily sidelines the studio\u2019s first lead Black character \u2013 a decision which I suspect will generate a lot of discussion in the days ahead.<\/span><\/p>\n

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity. Warning: full spoilers<\/strong> ahead.<\/i><\/p>\n

Before we really get into the meat of the interview, I noticed that Ryan Coogler was thanked in the movie\u2019s credits. How did he contribute to this project?<\/b><\/p>\n

Dana:<\/strong> Yeah, he\u2019s an Oakland guy, and we\u2019re based in Emeryville. Being the friendly studio we are, we have a lot of space, and I think he was looking for a place to hide and write the films he\u2019s working on. So we took advantage of the fact that he was around and asked him to take a look at the reels and we had a notes session with him, and he was really helpful. He\u2019s a really nice guy.<\/p>\n

Cool. There\u2019s a scene in the first half of the movie in which Joe revisits moments of his life that is quietly devastating, and near the end of the film, we see some of those same moments again, but through a different lens. Did you know from the start that that was going to be the \u201cclassic Pixar\u201d scene that makes people cry?<\/b><\/p>\n

Pete:<\/strong> It was maybe the second or third pass \u2013 let me answer it this way: I knew from the beginning I wanted Joe to be able to have this epiphany that the small moments in his life were what it was about, and it felt right that that would be at the piano, the instrument of his passion. But exactly how that connected to anything else was a discovery later. I know we have that scene, Kemp, where he walks through his life and it\u2019s pathetic, and I think we just boarded it straight, looking for pathetic moments. And maybe the third or fourth pass through, somebody had the idea of connecting those.<\/p>\n

Kemp:<\/strong> Yes. That\u2019s what it was. Initially, it was this idea of a museum of your life, and it was comparing Joe\u2019s failed life to that of a real mentor, which is all of these moments of success. And it was after several passes, like, \u201cOh, what if all these failed moments, if you just look at them from a different perspective, are actually transcendent moments?\u201d Joe is unfairly judging his own life as not valuable, as not good, and when seen through 22\u2019s eyes, it\u2019s actually kind of amazing. In that period at the end when he\u2019s at the piano, his first glimpses are actually her memories in his body. That\u2019s what triggers this new look at his entire life going all the way back. Which, God knows, talk about notes sessions about \u201cAre people going to understand this?\u201d, that was a lot of them.<\/p>\n

The score in that scene is particularly incredible. What kind of direction, if any, did you give Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross for creating the music for that big emotional sequence?<\/b><\/p>\n

Pete:<\/strong> They were pretty involved through the whole thing. They came up and would watch any major revisions we did to the storyboards, and we worked quite differently than we would traditionally. Usually, you\u2019d basically lock picture and then bring somebody like Michael Giacchino<\/b> or any of our great composers and it\u2019s kind of post-scored. But in this case, they started giving us tracks early on. I think that particular section we were talking about an emptiness and a hollowness. We just kind of used some descript<\/a>ive words to fill in \u2013 I mean, they\u2019re watching the reels, they\u2019re watching the storyboards, so we\u2019re hoping the sequence kind of speaks for itself. But yeah, sort of empty failure and vacant nothingness was the feeling we were looking for.<\/p>\n

Dana:<\/strong> It was really cool because Trent so related to how Joe felt after that concert. He\u2019s like, \u201cI remember feeling that way, like \u2018Once I play a stadium, I\u2019m going to be good.\u2019 But that didn\u2019t fix me, or fix how I felt.\u201d So when he came back with that cue, we were all like, oh my God.<\/p>\n

Kemp:<\/strong> Right, because he gave us like three or four to choose from, and we all unanimously agreed on the first listen. We were like, \u201cWhoa.\u201d I think you started crying, Pete. Not to blow up your spot, but you teared up, didn\u2019t you?<\/p>\n

Pete:<\/strong> Yeah, totally.<\/p>\n

Kemp:<\/strong> The first time he heard it, he was emotional.<\/p>\n

One of the big ideas this movie addresses is the clash between creativity and pragmatism. As creative people yourselves, I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve probably wondered at some point if you should give it all up for something more stable and secure. Talk a little about the message you wanted to put into the world with this movie.<\/b><\/p>\n

Pete:<\/strong> Pixar\u2019s full of all of these people who succeeded in spite of their parents being like, \u201cYou\u2019re going to be a doctor!\u201d and they\u2019re like, \u201cNo, Mom, I\u2019m an artist!\u201d My parents were artists, too, so I kind of cursed them, like, \u201cYou didn\u2019t give me somebody to fight against!\u201d They were actually super important and encouraging throughout my whole career, so I don\u2019t really have that specific struggle the way I know a lot of people do. Kemp, I know you had some struggles.<\/p>\n

Kemp:<\/strong> I certainly had that struggle. No one though this was even a real job. So yeah, it\u2019s been bizarre. This year, having a few movies<\/a> coming out, I think my family doesn\u2019t quite know what to make of it. Because it\u2019s this thing that I\u2019ve been doing all this time \u2013 and of course I\u2019ve been a playwright, but plays are different. Plays run at a theater, and my family has gone to see my stuff at a theater. But\u00a0 <\/span>seeing Disney commercials and stuff like that, they\u2019re like, \u201cAre you kidding me?\u201d I guess deep down in their minds, my mom might have thought that maybe I would end up doing something else, even at this age. She\u2019s finally like, \u201cAll right, that\u2019s what Kemp does.\u201d<\/p>\n

Dana:<\/strong> My parents were pretty encouraging, and I also joke that I was the third child and they were sort of like, \u201cWhatever! You seem fine!\u201d<\/p>\n

There\u2019s a scene where we see the various mentors that 22 has encountered during her time in The Great Before. There are a lot of famous historical figures there, but I think I spotted [Pixar writer] Joe Ranft [who died in 2005] was also included, which is such a wonderful tribute. Were there any other more personal choices on that wall that we might miss if we\u2019re not looking for them?<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n

Pete:<\/strong> Yeah, we wanted a wall full of stickers. So there were plenty of chances for people to fill in their own. Another one for me was Joe Grant<\/b>, who was one of the great Disney story artists and development guys back in the \u201840s. He worked with Walt Disney. I got to know him when he was like 95 or something, and he was a great mentor to me. As well as the father of Frank Oz, this guy named Mike Oznowicz<\/strong>. He lived locally in Oakland, and we would meet him every weekend, and his was just a fantastic, full of life guy. And a bunch of other folks. Did you guys have anyone in there?<\/span><\/p>\n

Kemp:<\/strong> Archimedes was my big one, remember? I was like, \u201cArchimedes, please!\u201d because I was a little nerd for ancient Greek science<\/a> as a kid.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dana:<\/strong> As a producer, that wall became very painful, because it felt like we had all these names, and someone was always in my office and was like, \u201cYou know, that person did this, this and this,\u201d and I\u2019m like, \u201cAhh!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Pete:<\/strong> \u201cThomas Jefferson. Well, out he goes!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Dana:<\/strong> The Internet ruins everybody\u2019s history.<\/span><\/p>\n

When the decision was made to put this movie directly onto Disney+, was there ever any talk about pulling the Terry moment after the credits when he says, \u201cThe movie\u2019s over, go home\u201d?<\/b><\/p>\n

Pete:<\/strong> (laughs) No, we didn\u2019t. Although I have thought about it. \u201cWait a minute, everybody is home already!\u201d<\/p>\n

Kemp:<\/strong> Not in Korea. There are still certain countries \u2013 <\/span>China \u2013 they\u2019re going to see it in theaters.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s true. Tell me about how the idea to put Joe\u2019s soul in the cat came about and may have evolved over the process, because that feels like one of this movie\u2019s big swings.<\/b><\/p>\n

Kemp:<\/strong> I think that was [co-writer] Mike Jones<\/b>\u2019s idea, wasn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

Pete:<\/strong> Yeah, the first version of this was all in the You Seminar. So Joe, in order to get back, had to show 22 his life through those moments in the Hall of You. It ended up being very kind of talk and point, it was like, \u201cHere we are\u201d and we\u2019d stop and watch a scene and discuss it, and then we\u2019d move over here, and we\u2019d stop and watch a scene and discuss it \u2013\u00a0it was not interactive at all. It didn\u2019t allow the character\u2019s to really change what they were watching. So Mike had this idea to bring him down and switch them so that Joe could see his own life from a different point of view instead of going back into his own life, because that\u2019s, of course, what he wants. So on one level, it seems like, \u201cOh, that works perfectly.\u201d On another, it was like, \u201cOK, I feel like I\u2019ve seen this before,\u201d and as we did more research, unfortunately there are so few films featuring Black Americans, Black actors, in animation that it was kind of a cliche. So it was definitely something we were aware of. Beyond a cliche, it\u2019s kind of seen as like, \u201cOh, great. Finally we\u2019re represented and then you take it away from us.\u201d Our hope was, in this particular way, we still get to represent Joe\u2019s life. He\u2019s not in his body, but we\u2019re still seeing his body walk through all his spaces and interact with all the people that he does in his normal life. So it was a bit of a tricky thing to pull off. Cross our fingers.<\/p>\n

Kemp:<\/strong> In a traditional body swap, you would have had Joe and 22 get separated, and 22 would do this whole series of things where she\u2019s on her own living Joe\u2019s life better than he is. Meanwhile, Joe \u2013\u00a0it was purposeful for us to keep them together. Because even though he was in the cat, he had a certain amount of control over his own body.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Soul<\/em> is streaming now on Disney+.<\/p>\n

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