{"id":243796,"date":"2021-05-06T22:00:43","date_gmt":"2021-05-06T19:00:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/en.buradabiliyorum.com\/the-falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-composer-interview-film\/"},"modified":"2021-05-06T22:00:43","modified_gmt":"2021-05-06T19:00:43","slug":"the-falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-composer-interview-film","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/the-falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-composer-interview-film\/","title":{"rendered":"#The Falcon and the Winter Soldier Composer Interview \u2013 \/Film"},"content":{"rendered":"

“#The Falcon and the Winter Soldier Composer Interview \u2013 \/Film<\/strong>”<\/p>\n

\n

\"Falcon<\/p>\n

If you want to track the evolution of the Hollywood blockbuster over the past decade, just scroll through the filmography of composer Henry Jackman<\/strong>. It represents an impressive slice of varied films (dramas, action films, animated adventures, comedies, monster movies<\/a>), all of them unified in being expensive wide releases seen by millions of people. Here\u2019s a select few: Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle<\/em>, X-Men: First Class<\/em>, Ralph Breaks the Internet<\/em>, Kong: Skull Island<\/em>, Detective Pikachu<\/em>, Captain Phillips<\/em>, This is the End<\/em>. And, of course, there\u2019s his contributions to the Marvel Cinematic Universe with Captain America: The Winter Soldier<\/em> and Captain America: Civil War<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Jackman\u2019s work in the MCU continued this year with The Falcon and the Winter Solider<\/em><\/strong>, the six-episode Disney+ series following the latest adventures of Captain America\u2019s best buds. With the series now concluded, I spoke with Jackman about creating music for the series, his creative app<\/a>roach to scoring film and television, and working inside a giant blockbuster machine like Marvel Studios.<\/p>\n

What makes your score here different from your scores for Civil War<\/i> and Winter Soldier<\/i>? At what point did you realize you can\u2019t do the same Captain America thing again and have to find a new identity?<\/b><\/p>\n

That\u2019s a really good question. I suppose it\u2019s the same in the writing: it\u2019s a combination. It self-evidently isn\u2019t completely new, because we\u2019re dealing with characters we\u2019ve seen before. So it can\u2019t be such a reach from where we\u2019ve come from that they\u2019re unrecognizable. But there\u2019re all heading to different narrative places in their journey. I\u2019d probably start there. Obviously, when you see episode one you don\u2019t know what\u2019s going to happen, but by the time you get to episode six, you\u2019ve seen the full journey of Sam feeling burdened by the legacy of Steve Rogers. Feeling not up to the task of inheriting the shield. Then the whole conversation with Isaiah Bradley, finding out about terrible things in the past. Not in any way diminishing Bucky \u2013 who also has an amazingly important journey trying to resolve the person he used to be when he was an assassin, and that\u2019s an incredibly important feature of the show \u2013\u00a0but I probably started with the track \u201cLouisiana Hero,\u201d which is like a motif that I took from when [Sam] was Falcon in The Winter Soldier<\/i> and then, knowing where this show was going to go, that was just the beginning of something back then. I wanted to take that motif and turn it into a fully realized superhero thing, but also reflect Sam Wilson\u2019s background, which is why \u201cLouisiana Hero\u201d \u2013\u00a0there are versions of it in episodes five and six that are the full regular orchestration, but there are moments when I wanted to get some of the fabric of his background in there. Which is why it has this less classical rhythm and guitars and Hammond [organ] and whatnot. But I think knowing where Sam Wilson ends up was a really good starting point. That meant that that track, \u201cLouisiana Hero,\u201d was sort of a destination to get to: the superhero melody is the destination, the Louisiana and the groove part is like where he\u2019s come from.<\/p>\n

In the case of Bucky, it was a case of finding a musical identity that reflected his de-programmed \u2013\u00a0there are moments when he has violent outbursts when he gets triggered, but apart from that, Bucky\u2019s journey is really well reflected in that very emotional scene in the last episode. He\u2019s trying to make amends, confess, and explain what he did in his past. So the main Bucky theme, which probably reaches its climax musically in that scene, was another sort of end point to aim for. Narrative end points are a good indication. If you think where Bucky ends up and where Falcon or Sam Wilson ends up, it\u2019s a long way from Civil War <\/i>and Winter Soldier<\/i>. Once you know that narratively, [it\u2019s about coming] up with musical identity and theme to take us to those places.<\/p>\n

Do you approach character first, or do you break it down by scene or atmosphere? Or is it a combination of the two?<\/b><\/p>\n

Everyone\u2019s different, but I guess I would recommend that in a way, the secret hidden weapon of film scoring and composing is actually literary criticism. It sounds very intellectual and academic, but what I mean by that is, I think it\u2019s a bit more superficial to get distracted by an individual scene. Obviously certain movies have such a visual tone, so of course they\u2019re going to inspire the music. But in a way, you want to put yourself in the mind of a director or a writer, so you really understand the narrative function. Imagine having to do an academic breakdown of: what\u2019s actually going on in this film subtextually? What\u2019s it about? What are the themes of the film? And sometimes it\u2019ll mean that you have to understand the character and a theme particularly pertains to character, but sometimes it can be more conceptual. One of the things I did on Civil War<\/i>, one of the ways to ruin it, in my opinion, would have been to have like seventeen themes flying around because there are so many superheroes. What was more important intellectually or narratively was the clash. The clash was what was important about it. What you ended up with was two opposing themes. So the big Civil War<\/i> theme, which shows up a lot in that, denotes that there\u2019s something slightly tragic in there. I\u2019ve used a bit of harmony in there that has tension in it. That\u2019s an example that doesn\u2019t pertain to any particular individual, but to the veering prospect of what happens when two sets of extremely powerful people disagree over those Accords and beat the crap out of each other at an airport, in a highly entertaining way. So it really depends.<\/p>\n

In a way, what you should do is come up with a theme such that you\u2019ve got the version that you can use right at the end of the movie. It should be so fully realized in your own imagination, and in a way, what you\u2019ve actually got is probably the version you can only use at the end, and then what you\u2019ve gotta do during the movie is deconstruct it and hint at it and work backwards. In other words, my recommendation is, instead of having a few pork slices and then trying to assemble a pig, is you should roast a whole pig, even though you don\u2019t need that in the beginning. Then you start slicing that and taking bits of it and you\u2019ve got your full meal at the end. Even though it can be frustrating sometimes, because you can write a complete melody. In X-Men: First Class<\/i>, I was dying to get that [theme in there], but they\u2019re a bunch of incompetent teenagers. For ages, they don\u2019t get it together. There\u2019s all these processes where they\u2019re coming together. It\u2019s like, \u201cCome on! Let me get that tune out in its full context!\u201d But it\u2019s much better to have the fully realized idea in your head and be forced to deconstruct in the early stages, rather than have a few fragments and then suddenly have to pull out a finished, developed thing. I\u2019d much rather have the full cake hidden in the oven and slice it down if need be, but I\u2019ve already figured out the full cake.<\/p>\n

Do you look at the footage or read the script and go, \u201cI think Sam is this instrument\u201d or \u201cI think Bucky is this instrument?\u201d Do you think that way?<\/b><\/p>\n

It\u2019s a really good question, but I don\u2019t know how conscious I am of it. I think in the really early stages of reading scripts, I want \u2013 to go back to that remark about literary criticism \u2013\u00a0I want so to get underneath the skin of the writing that I think I almost willfully read it as if I\u2019m a writer. Imagine a writer going, \u201cHey, I\u2019ve got this script. Will you read through it and give me [notes]?\u201d Maybe subconsciously things are starting to brew in the back of my head, but in the first couple of reads of the script, I\u2019m really going for the mechanics of what\u2019s happening in the story. At least consciously. Maybe some rumblings happening. Then when I go into the studio, I feel like as I start to explore, which is a very instinctive thing, I think the discipline of having really focused on what\u2019s going on in the story, especially subtextually, you\u2019re more likely to [create] material that\u2019s hitting the sweet spot because you\u2019ve had the discipline not just to have a brief read and then launch into action with some piece that you think is cool. Have you really understood what\u2019s going on? Film music isn\u2019t just about, \u201cHey, I wrote this piece of music! I like it. Do you like it?\u201d It\u2019s more like, I\u2019ve got this idea of a fracture in music, which was useful for Civil War<\/i>. And I\u2019ve got this idea of manipulation for Zemo, which is why I used a very serpentine scale. You\u2019ve gotta know why you\u2019re doing something. Otherwise, you could do something interesting that actually doesn\u2019t benefit anybody.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m curious about the collaboration aspect. I spoke with both Jacob Hall Malcolm [Spellman] and [director] Kari [Skogland] a few weeks ago, and they both said that they really tried to respect each other\u2019s space and distance. Who do you collaborate with? What\u2019s the creative process between the three of you making sure you all share the same vision for this score?<\/b><\/p>\n

It depends completely on different projects. There is no law about how that works. Sometimes you have super interested and invested producers who are obsessed by music. Sometimes you have producers who so trust their director that they don\u2019t even say anything. There are a million and one permutations of this. But in the case of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, I had very detailed conversations with Kari, and early on. What was great was Kari and I were talking way before the music was being written and having discussions about an African-American Captain America, discussions about Flag Smashers, idealism, capitalism \u2013 all sorts of heavy duty conversations way before we got into the music. Then once you get into the actual score, despite the efforts of Covid to disrupt everything, there\u2019s pretty slick technology<\/a> going on. It\u2019s pretty easy to present music, and we can all be [on video] and talk together. Really, the brain trust was [editor] Jeff Ford<\/b> and Kari and [producer] Nate<\/b> [Moore<\/b>], and other producers were really important. I mean, Kevin<\/b> [Feige<\/b>] is also really important.<\/p>\n

I\u2019ve been really lucky to work with some legends \u2013 to be in the same room as, and to work with the Katzenbergs, the Bruckheimers, and the Kevin Feiges. And I think one of the biggest geniuses I can see in these people who are operating on a stratospheric level of logistical creativity is they\u2019re really good at putting something together, finding the right people, and having confidence in them. Almost like a family. Giving people sufficient space that he gets the best out of all of their inherent creativity. And then having just enough note giving and entry into the process to come up with some of those critical far-reaching things that sometimes only he can see. So the day-to-day collaboration would be with Kari and Nate and [producer] Zoie<\/b> [Nagelhout<\/b>] and Jeff, the picture editor. And the creative watchful eye of Kevin comes in at these key moments to see sequences and patches of things. Trust me: if something isn\u2019t working, you\u2019d never get it past Kevin. Even if everyone else had deluded themselves that something was working, you\u2019d never get it past Kevin. Because he\u2019s got that overarching judgment call and instinct that, if you look at the whole universe created thus far, the Marvel universe has been pretty flawless.<\/p>\n

When you\u2019re writing for a Marvel movie, you\u2019re not just writing for a standalone project \u2013 you\u2019re contributing to that larger universe you were talking about. You\u2019re serving not just this TV show, but possibly themes, motifs, ideas that will continue onward. Knowing that Captain America 4<\/i> has been announced with Malcolm writing it and knowing that these characters will continue, what is it like to serve not just this project, but the larger franchise? Do you think about that when you write? Or do you just focus down on this one project or it gets too overwhelming?<\/b><\/p>\n

The latter is true. You just don\u2019t know. Even though you\u2019ve said [Cap 4<\/i>] has been announced, but I think technically it hasn\u2019t. I think it\u2019s a leak or something. Meaning, with the best will in the world, you really don\u2019t know, and there\u2019s been so many twists and turns that your best bet \u2013\u00a0if you think of Winter Soldier<\/i>, Civil War<\/i>, this six-episode show, they have so many aesthetic, creative, and musical demands, that your best bet is not to get distracted by guessing what may or may not happen in the future. I mean, for example, I was just delighted that the motif of Falcon, eight years later or whatever it was, became the basis of a superhero [project] that\u2019s emerged as Sam Wilson being Captain America. I could never have known that for a fact, and had I speculated, I could have been wrong or it could have been someone else. Like a dog chasing its tail. When I came up with that motif in Winter Soldier<\/i>, I was really busy and the score was really important. I did for a second think, \u201cWow, I love that tune. I should develop this because I might need it \u2013\u00a0it could go somewhere. But I don\u2019t have time. I need to finish the score for Winter Soldier<\/i>, and maybe I can come back to it one day.\u201d Then you start working on other projects. It\u2019s just something you know is pregnant with musical potential, but it\u2019s only when it comes around, now eight years later, that we\u2019ve seen the show as it is and it becomes creatively clear that this is something that could be resurrected and transformed into a full theme.<\/p>\n

But trying to guess? Good luck. Trying to second guess exactly how the Marvel universe plays out is a bit like trying to guess what Apple\u2019s new thing is. In a way, you don\u2019t want to know. You know what I mean? Part of it is unexpected. If you rewound to Iron Man<\/i>, and then clicked your fingers to where we are now with WandaVision<\/i> and this show, you\u2019d be like, \u201cHow did they get there?\u201d You just have to be patient and see. It\u2019s sort of a minor miracle. I mean, there are graphic novels. It\u2019s not a complete miracle \u2013 it\u2019s [based on] material. But nothing like this has ever been achieved in filmmaking. I know people say Star Wars<\/i>, but it\u2019s not true. In terms of the breadth of the universe and how it links, I honestly don\u2019t think there\u2019s anything comparable.<\/p>\n

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