{"id":550239,"date":"2023-02-09T18:27:05","date_gmt":"2023-02-09T15:27:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/en.buradabiliyorum.com\/john-cale-remains-in-flux\/"},"modified":"2023-02-09T18:27:05","modified_gmt":"2023-02-09T15:27:05","slug":"john-cale-remains-in-flux","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/john-cale-remains-in-flux\/","title":{"rendered":"#John Cale remains in flux"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"ez-toc-container\" class=\"ez-toc-v2_0_84 counter-hierarchy ez-toc-counter ez-toc-custom ez-toc-container-direction\">\n<p class=\"ez-toc-title\" style=\"cursor:inherit\">Table of Contents<\/p>\n<label for=\"ez-toc-cssicon-toggle-item-6a21fe45233e6\" class=\"ez-toc-cssicon-toggle-label\"><span class=\"\"><span class=\"eztoc-hide\" style=\"display:none;\">Toggle<\/span><span class=\"ez-toc-icon-toggle-span\"><svg style=\"fill: #dd3333;color:#dd3333\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" class=\"list-377408\" width=\"20px\" height=\"20px\" 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href=\"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/john-cale-remains-in-flux\/#%E2%80%9CJohn_Cale_remains_in_flux%E2%80%9D\" >&#8220;John Cale remains in flux&#8221;<\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/nav><\/div>\n<h1><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"%E2%80%9CJohn_Cale_remains_in_flux%E2%80%9D\"><\/span>&#8220;John Cale remains in flux&#8221;<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h1>\n<div class=\"content_blocks\">\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<style>\n<p> article.custom .custom-title, article.custom .custom-media .caption {\n   color: #FFFFFF;\n }<\/p>\n<p> article.custom .custom-attribution, article.custom .custom-attribution a {\n   color: #FFFFFF;\n }<\/p>\n<p> article.custom .content_block blockquote.pull_quote {\n   color: #FFFFFF;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242486\" class=\"content_block flush title center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"custom-title\">\n      John Cale remains in flux\n    <\/div>\n<div class=\"custom-description\">\n      The Velvet Underground co-founder and lifelong iconoclast shares wisdom on the avant garde\u2019s past and future on the latest episode of The FADER Interview.\n    <\/div>\n<div class=\"custom-attribution\">\n<div class=\"author\">\n    <span><br \/>\n      By <span class=\"credit_name\">Raphael Helfand<\/span><br \/>\n  <\/span><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"custom-media\">\n<div class=\"triple_gutter_left triple_gutter_right image center_align\">\n<p>  <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1440,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_glccpr\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_220,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_glccpr\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 220w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_300,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_glccpr\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 300w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_400,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_glccpr\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 400w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_600,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_glccpr\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 600w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_750,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_glccpr\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 750w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_840,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_glccpr\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 840w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_960,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_glccpr\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 960w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1260,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_glccpr\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 1260w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1800,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_glccpr\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 1800w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_2400,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_glccpr\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 2400w,\" sizes=\"100vw\" alt=\"John Cale remains in flux\"><span class=\"img_caption\"><\/p>\n<p>  <span class=\"credit\"><\/p>\n<p>      Madeline McManus<\/p>\n<p>  <\/span><\/p>\n<p><\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"custom_share_buttons_top \" style=\"\">\n<div id=\"new_socials_bottom\" class=\"new_socials_footer  \">\n<p>      <img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"\" width=\"40\" height=\"40\" src=\"https:\/\/www.thefader.com\/assets\/FDR_SocialSharing_Facebook-747312c39722d47504a80f02500b8d4ad2e36acf922bad1c83799db1bc77f605.png\" alt=\"Fdr socialsharing facebook\"><!-- <span>Share<\/span> --><\/p>\n<p>  <a rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/intent\/tweet?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefader.com%2F2023%2F02%2F09%2Fjohn-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast%3Futm_source%3Df%26utm_medium%3Dtw%26utm_campaign%3Dshare&amp;text=John%20Cale%20remains%20in%20flux&amp;via=thefader\" class=\"new_social_footer_button twitter new_social_share_button\" data-ga-event-category=\"Social Share\" data-ga-event-label=\"Twitter\" data-ga-on=\"click\" data-ga-event-action=\"cilck\"><\/p>\n<p>    <img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"\" width=\"40\" height=\"40\" src=\"https:\/\/www.thefader.com\/assets\/FDR_SocialSharing_Twitter-8d78f695280aa3f8a4461702c68e9fcbfd6042af1600c62d49fdec4b735fb57a.png\" alt=\"Fdr socialsharing twitter\"><!-- <span>Tweet<\/span> --><\/a><\/p>\n<p>        <img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"\" width=\"20\" height=\"20\" src=\"https:\/\/www.thefader.com\/assets\/logo-snapchat-5f1563935ac089d0cf1773f642ddbfb6cdb16e8c4ac14fec95a3c11b6f963389.svg\" alt=\"Logo snapchat\"><!-- <span>Snap<\/span> --><\/p>\n<\/div><\/div>\n<style>\n<p> #content_block-242487,  #content_block-242487 blockquote.pull_quote, #content_block-242487 .img_caption .caption {\n   color: #FFFFFF;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242487\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#ffffff\" class=\"lead-text\">John Cale has always been a step ahead.<\/span> He was post-rock while rock was still finding itself, post-punk before punk existed \u2014 constantly moving toward a distant beacon only he could see. Born and raised in the mining town in Garnant, Wales, in 1942, he took refuge in his local library as a teen, devouring music scores most professionals at the time couldn\u2019t make sense of. His passion for the avant-garde led him across the Atlantic to the forward-thinking Tanglewood Music Center in Western Massachusetts, but his burgeoning <a href=\"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/category\/download-scripts-themes-apps\/\" data-internallinksmanager029f6b8e52c=\"9\" title=\"Download Scripts &amp; Themes &amp; Apps\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">app<\/a>reciation for aggressive rock \u2019n\u2019 roll alienated him from his professors there.<\/p>\n<p>            He found a more welcoming home in New York with <a rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"color:#7c7433\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theartstory.org\/movement\/fluxus\/\">Fluxus<\/a> luminary La Monte Young\u2019s Theatre of Eternal Music. Shortly after his move, in 1964, he joined forces with a young New Yorker named Lou Reed to found The Velvet Underground, where he would create drone mayhem beneath Reed\u2019s lyrical experiments. But even the world\u2019s most progressive rock band was intimidated by Cale\u2019s vision, and he once again found himself too far ahead of the curve and out on his own.<\/p>\n<p>            Since leaving the Velvets in 1968, Cale has been in constant flux, working solo and collaboratively on everything from delicately crafted chamber pop symphonies to pulverizing dronescapes. An outspoken hip-hop fan, he\u2019s incorporated trap drums into his own instrumentation with the same facility he\u2019s brought to so many other innovations in sound, devouring them before recreating them in his own image.<\/p>\n<p>            In January, he shared <i>MERCY<\/i>, his first full-length album of original music in over a decade. It features an ensemble cast of younger acts: Laurel Halo, Actress, Weyes Blood, Sylvan Esso, Animal Collective, <a rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"color:#7c7433\" href=\"https:\/\/fatwhitefamilymusic.com\/\">Fat White Family<\/a>, and Tei Shi. He\u2019s still ahead of the pulse, pulling some of modern music\u2019s most singular freaks even further from the mainstream. With every feature, he coaxes new raw material out of each collaborator and molds it into something more powerful. At the same time, he\u2019s subtly slowing down, drawing nearer to a place where he\u2019ll finally be content to pass the torch.<\/p>\n<p>            Following <i>MERCY<\/i>\u2019s release, I sat down with Cale for a brief but illuminating conversation about experimental music\u2019s past and future, John Lennon\u2019s smoking habits, and making a scene at the <a href=\"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/category\/watch-movies-tv-seriess\/\" data-internallinksmanager029f6b8e52c=\"8\" title=\"Watch Movies &amp; TV Series\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">movies<\/a>.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242536\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<div class=\"\" style=\"padding-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px; text-align: left;\">\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242488\" class=\"content_block breaker triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left image\">\n<div class=\"media_wrapper\">\n<p>  <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1440,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale_Photo-Credit-Marlene-Marino_1_wkekae\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_220,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale_Photo-Credit-Marlene-Marino_1_wkekae\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 220w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_300,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale_Photo-Credit-Marlene-Marino_1_wkekae\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 300w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_400,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale_Photo-Credit-Marlene-Marino_1_wkekae\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 400w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_600,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale_Photo-Credit-Marlene-Marino_1_wkekae\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 600w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_750,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale_Photo-Credit-Marlene-Marino_1_wkekae\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 750w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_840,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale_Photo-Credit-Marlene-Marino_1_wkekae\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 840w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_960,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale_Photo-Credit-Marlene-Marino_1_wkekae\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 960w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1260,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale_Photo-Credit-Marlene-Marino_1_wkekae\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 1260w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1800,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale_Photo-Credit-Marlene-Marino_1_wkekae\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 1800w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_2400,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale_Photo-Credit-Marlene-Marino_1_wkekae\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 2400w,\" sizes=\"100vw\" alt=\"John Cale remains in flux\"><span class=\"img_caption\"><\/p>\n<p>  <span class=\"credit\"><\/p>\n<p>      Marlene Marino<\/p>\n<p>  <\/span><\/p>\n<p><\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<p> #content_block-242489,  #content_block-242489 blockquote.pull_quote, #content_block-242489 .img_caption .caption {\n   color: #ffffff;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242489\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<p>            <i>This Q&amp;A is taken from the latest episode of The FADER Interview. To hear this week\u2019s show in full, and to access the podcast\u2019s archive, click <a rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"color:#7c7433\" href=\"https:\/\/link.chtbl.com\/thefaderinterview\">here<\/a>.<\/i><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242490\" class=\"content_block paragraph embed triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"media_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"\">\n    <iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm?p=TFI7834680816\" width=\"100%\" height=\"482\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242537\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<div class=\"\" style=\"padding-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px; text-align: left;\">\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<p> #content_block-242491,  #content_block-242491 blockquote.pull_quote, #content_block-242491 .img_caption .caption {\n   color: #FFFFFF;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242491\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<p>\n            <b>The FADER: Growing up in Wales, you were drawn to the bleeding edge of Western music: Berg, Webern, Stockhausen, Ligeti, Cage, et cetera. You had the ears of a much more seasoned listener. What do you think it was about your upbringing or your innate sensibility that led you im<a href=\"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/category\/social-mediaa\/\" data-internallinksmanager029f6b8e52c=\"1\" title=\"Social Media\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">media<\/a>tely to music that\u2019s such an acquired taste for everyone else?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\"><b>John Cale:<\/b> I was always interested in the experimental side of things. I was messing around with experiments at school, and I got more satisfaction out of understanding algorithms than what a melody meant, so I got used to that. Some people at school, they got used to it too, and they thought I was a nut job for wanting to go after Berg, Webern, and all the <a rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"color:#7c7433\" href=\"https:\/\/www.britannica.com\/art\/12-tone-music\">12-tone<\/a> masters. So I kept going, but then I said, \u201cThis is not all of it. This is not what all of it is meant to be.\u201d Then slowly, you progress from what new music is about today versus new music in a decade. You may like what\u2019s happening now, or you may not. You find suddenly that in about another two years, tastes have changed, so I was happy to follow it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <b>There\u2019s a great story of you being jumped into the cult of rock and roll at age 15 when you went to a screening of <i>Rock Around the Clock<\/i> and it suddenly turned into a dance party. Was it a short road from there to immersing yourself fully in rock music? And how did your new listening habits inform the rest of your classical education?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">It was already irritating for most of the people in my school. But it was surprising, the variety of responses. The Ladies of the Valley would come, and I would go with a friend of mine from high school. I\u2019d go and sit through the film. What we were trying to do was to not create a stir. This is serious stuff. I mean, this is God here. Then, as I was walking out of the theater\u2026 Oh my God, there were the Ladies of the Valley. And I thought, \u201cOh, I\u2019m in trouble now.\u201d But what happened was the ladies said, \u201cThat was very, very funny.\u201d They completely turned the tables on me.<\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<p> #content_block-242494,  #content_block-242494 blockquote.pull_quote, #content_block-242494 .img_caption .caption {\n   color: #7c7433;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242494\" class=\"content_block breaker triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left pull_quote\">\n<div class=\"media_wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"pull_quote\"><p>\u201cThere was always suspicion about whether I was really seeing this thing from the right point of view. It depends on who you ask. If you talked to my music teachers, they would say, \u2018Ah, forget it. He\u2019s just wasting time.\u2019<\/p><\/blockquote><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242538\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<div class=\"\" style=\"padding-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px; text-align: left;\">\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<p> #content_block-242493,  #content_block-242493 blockquote.pull_quote, #content_block-242493 .img_caption .caption {\n   color: #ffffff;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242493\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<p>\n            <b>Once you came to the States and you went to Tanglewood, the rock that seeped into your classical playing got you into some trouble. You were deemed too out there for Tanglewood, too aggressive. And later, you were deemed too out there for the Velvet Underground \u2014 too out there for what supposedly the most out-there institutions in their respective forms.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">I think you put your finger on the next album title: <i>Too Out There<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <b>Whether you perceive them as rejections or not, did those conflicts ever lead to moments of doubt, or were you always completely confident in your artistic vision?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">No, never. Not confident, no. I mean, there was always suspicion about whether I was really seeing this thing from the right point of view. It depends on who you ask. If you talked to my music teachers, they would say, \u201cAh, forget it. He\u2019s just wasting time.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">Later on, I suddenly had friends in the music business, and you really developed a camaraderie with people from your local valley. It\u2019s such a strange coincidence that years later, you\u2019d run into them and they\u2019d say, \u201cHey, how you doing, man?\u201d<\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242492\" class=\"content_block paragraph image triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"media_wrapper\">\n<p>  <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1440,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-05-PC-Marlene-Marino_tmworf\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_220,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-05-PC-Marlene-Marino_tmworf\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 220w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_300,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-05-PC-Marlene-Marino_tmworf\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 300w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_400,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-05-PC-Marlene-Marino_tmworf\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 400w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_600,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-05-PC-Marlene-Marino_tmworf\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 600w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_750,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-05-PC-Marlene-Marino_tmworf\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 750w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_840,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-05-PC-Marlene-Marino_tmworf\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 840w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_960,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-05-PC-Marlene-Marino_tmworf\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 960w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1260,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-05-PC-Marlene-Marino_tmworf\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 1260w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1800,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-05-PC-Marlene-Marino_tmworf\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 1800w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_2400,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-05-PC-Marlene-Marino_tmworf\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 2400w,\" sizes=\"100vw\" alt=\"John Cale remains in flux\"><span class=\"img_caption\"><\/p>\n<p>  <span class=\"credit\"><\/p>\n<p>      Marlene Marino<\/p>\n<p>  <\/span><\/p>\n<p><\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<p> #content_block-242495,  #content_block-242495 blockquote.pull_quote, #content_block-242495 .img_caption .caption {\n   color: #ffffff;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242495\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<p>            <b>You still seem to hold a lot of reverence for the Fluxus artists who inspired you and believed in you early on.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">Yeah, they were a bundle of laughs. <a rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"color:#7c7433\" href=\"http:\/\/georgemaciunas.com\/\">George Maciunas<\/a> was really the strongest guy. I mean, he was the one that got through to a lot of people in New York who didn\u2019t quite understand what was going on.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">Yoko brought John Lennon by to meet George Maciunas. George said, \u201cYoko, now, look. I know you\u2019re gonna bring John around to visit. But get him to realize something: He\u2019s a chain smoker, and I have asthma. I\u2019m tied to my air filter. I can\u2019t have my breathing interrupted or messed with.\u201d Yoko said, \u201cWell, what can I do?\u201d He said, \u201cOkay, I will charge you $100 per cigarette.\u201d And George was there with his tank and with his breathing apparatus.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">George was a stateless Lithuanian\u2026 but he had a following in the people who were building new buildings downtown in New York. He was in a strange position. He put this following up of people who understood exactly what the new designs were, but there were certain code rules: You can\u2019t pay people this wage, because they\u2019ve been trained to work for other people. It was an unfortunate circumstance. Because he wrote his own rules, he was very poorly treated. The fact that John was smoking was really the least of the problems.<\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<p> #content_block-242502,  #content_block-242502 blockquote.pull_quote, #content_block-242502 .img_caption .caption {\n   color: #7c7433;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242502\" class=\"content_block breaker triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left pull_quote\">\n<div class=\"media_wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"pull_quote\"><p>\u201cIt came to a point where everybody was experimenting, and it was a scrum: all these composers who were not following compositional methods. Nobody could really point at what was going on.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<p> #content_block-242503,  #content_block-242503 blockquote.pull_quote, #content_block-242503 .img_caption .caption {\n   color: #ffffff;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242503\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<p>            <b>Which principles of Fluxus have you held with you throughout your career, and which have you left behind?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">It\u2019s a complicated question. The basis of the subject matter was no longer music. What George had done was he understood what La Monte [Young] was into, and it was very clear that there were a lot of people in New York who were treading the light fantastic, doing different styles of music and living. Stockhausen would be out there doing music with several different keys. There would be one key for one instrument, another key for another instrument. It came to a point where everybody was experimenting, and it was a scrum: all these composers who were not following compositional methods. Nobody could really point at what was going on. Nobody could say, \u201cWell, he did that,\u201d because if you said that, you were marking your territory, telling people, \u201cThis is what I did. And what are you doing?\u201d It was a complex competition.<\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242539\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<div class=\"\" style=\"padding-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px; text-align: left;\">\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242496\" class=\"content_block breaker triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left video\">\n<div class=\"media_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"video_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"fluid-width-video-wrapper\" style=\"padding-top: 56.25%;\">\n<p>    <iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"John Cale - NOISE OF YOU (Official Video)\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/U7lt-jmxZ54?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><script>\n \/\/trackYouTubeVideo('242496');\n<\/script><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<p> #content_block-242497,  #content_block-242497 blockquote.pull_quote, #content_block-242497 .img_caption .caption {\n   color: #ffffff;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242497\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<p>\n            <b>Speaking of Fluxus, the short film for \u201cNoise of You\u201d feels like the perfect document of <a rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"color:#7c7433\" href=\"https:\/\/digitalartarchive.siggraph.org\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/01\/hertz_panel.pdf\">intermedia<\/a>. It\u2019s not just a music video: the songs and the visuals and voiceover are all intertwined in a really interesting way. I read the <i>LA Times<\/i> interview where you called it your favorite song on the record. Am I going too far in calling it the core of the record?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">No, it\u2019s a very accurate description. It was my favorite song. It reminded me of a lot of European cities that I would visit, especially the ones behind the Iron Curtain. You\u2019d find all these people there that were deprived of information about new music and new art. They\u2019d say, \u201cWe agree with that. That\u2019s how we see things developing in the art world, and this is what we want to do.\u201d And of course, the government would come down like a ton of bricks on them, especially in Prague. There were a lot of home-grown rock \u2019n\u2019 rollers in Prague, full of character.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <b>You\u2019re very upfront about calling \u201cNoise of You\u201d a love song, whereas you\u2019ve expressed some ambivalence about writing love songs in the past. Do you think it\u2019s the purest love song you\u2019ve written?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">It\u2019s the most innocuous love song. It did things without telling you what it was doing, so it was very subtle, and enjoyable because of that. But it\u2019s definitely a love song, and I have no qualms about owning up [to that].<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <b>At the end of that video, you say, \u201cI want to be the one to hand you the future, starting now.\u201d That could be read as a comment to all of your younger collaborators on the record.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">I don\u2019t mind that at all.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <b>Are these the artists you think you feel most comfortable handing the future to?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">Yeah, I certainly would.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <b>There\u2019s a note across the screen in the video that\u2019s specifically about Weyes Blood. It says, \u201cHer classical training reminds me of my blending of the two worlds.\u201d Can you expand on that? Do you see her in particular as a kindred spirit?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">Well, she\u2019s very good at preserving both of them, and they\u2019re both well-fed on both sides of the artistic spectrum. I appreciate that.<\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242540\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<div class=\"\" style=\"padding-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px; text-align: left;\">\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242498\" class=\"content_block breaker triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left video\">\n<div class=\"media_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"video_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"fluid-width-video-wrapper\" style=\"padding-top: 56.25%;\">\n<p>    <iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"John Cale - STORY OF BLOOD feat. Weyes Blood (Official Video)\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/qgwOid8vdwE?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><script>\n \/\/trackYouTubeVideo('242498');\n<\/script><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<p> #content_block-242499,  #content_block-242499 blockquote.pull_quote, #content_block-242499 .img_caption .caption {\n   color: #ffffff;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242499\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<p>\n            <b>The collaboration between you two, \u201cStory of Blood,\u201d is another show-stopper. I love that you\u2019re rarely directly harmonizing with her; it\u2019s more like you\u2019re orbiting each other. Is that the effect that you were going for?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">I wasn\u2019t going for it; it just happened. Some of the best things happen by accident.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <b>A lot has been made of your appreciation of hip-hop at large and trap in particular. I think \u201cStory of Blood\u201d is the song on the record where you best-integrated trap elements, particularly the machine gun hi-hat. Were there any producers, in particular, who inspired you on this record?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">I\u2019m always listening to Kendrick Lamar. A lot of the new artists have really stuck to their guns. I mean, I love Snoop and Dre. Earl Sweatshirt has a strange and wonderful atmosphere about him.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <b>I know you had intense classical viola training, but I\u2019ve never heard much about your vocal training, and I think your voice stands out as somewhat of a constant in your very fluctuating career.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">Well, it\u2019s a fluctuating vocal. It\u2019s shifting the furniture on the Titanic, because I always get bored with musical developments real easy. But I also get a kick out of listening to all the new stuff that\u2019s going on. They\u2019re always giving me a kick in the butt \u2014 not that I speak to them about it, but I draw from them what I appreciate.<\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242541\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<div class=\"\" style=\"padding-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px; text-align: left;\">\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242501\" class=\"content_block paragraph image triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"media_wrapper\">\n<p>  <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1440,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-06-PC-Marlene-Marino_tazo2k\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_220,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-06-PC-Marlene-Marino_tazo2k\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 220w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_300,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-06-PC-Marlene-Marino_tazo2k\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 300w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_400,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-06-PC-Marlene-Marino_tazo2k\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 400w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_600,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-06-PC-Marlene-Marino_tazo2k\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 600w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_750,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-06-PC-Marlene-Marino_tazo2k\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 750w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_840,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-06-PC-Marlene-Marino_tazo2k\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 840w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_960,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-06-PC-Marlene-Marino_tazo2k\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 960w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1260,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-06-PC-Marlene-Marino_tazo2k\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 1260w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_1800,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-06-PC-Marlene-Marino_tazo2k\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 1800w,https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/w_2400,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best\/John-Cale-06-PC-Marlene-Marino_tazo2k\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast.jpg 2400w,\" sizes=\"100vw\" alt=\"John Cale remains in flux\"><span class=\"img_caption\"><\/p>\n<p>  <span class=\"credit\"><\/p>\n<p>      Marlene Marino<\/p>\n<p>  <\/span><\/p>\n<p><\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<p> #content_block-242500,  #content_block-242500 blockquote.pull_quote, #content_block-242500 .img_caption .caption {\n   color: #ffffff;\n }\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242500\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<p>\n            <b>You\u2019ve got one of those voices I think is recognizable across form. While you\u2019re vastly different artists from him, I sometimes think of your career in parallel with that of Scott Walker, who\u2019s another\u2014<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">It\u2019s very funny you should say that, because a lot of people in England kind of said that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <b>I\u2019ve never heard you talk about him, so I\u2019m curious whether you were inspired by him, whether he was inspired by you.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">It was one of those shady partnerships\u2026 Not partnership, that\u2019s the wrong word. We didn\u2019t know each other well enough to really have a partnership. But it happened in London, when I was on island. I suddenly found myself listening to people talking about Scott Walker. They were noticing stuff about his style of production. Because I left London around the time he popped up, I really didn\u2019t get too much of an education in Scott\u2019s direction. I certainly went looking for it, but I couldn\u2019t put my finger on it. That\u2019s why it was such a strange occurrence to have a conversation about someone I never met.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>            <b>Returning to the Fluxus theory of art as a point on a continuum rather than a destination or a goal to be reached, do you look back on any of your projects as one opus? Or is the next project, the one you\u2019re working toward, always the most representative of the essence of John Cale?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>            <span style=\"color:#c5c5c5\">The last one.<\/span><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n<\/style>\n<div id=\"content_block-242542\" class=\"content_block paragraph text triple_gutter_right triple_gutter_left center_align\">\n<div class=\"content_inner_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"paragraph_wrapper center_align\">\n<div class=\"\" style=\"padding-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px; text-align: left;\">\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><\/p>\n<div class=\"author\">\n    <span><br \/>\n      By <span class=\"credit_name\">Raphael Helfand<\/span><br \/>\n  <\/span><\/div>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff6600;\">If you liked the article, do not forget to share it with your friends. Follow us on\u00a0<span style=\"color: #ff0000;\"><a style=\"color: #ff0000;\" href=\"https:\/\/news.google.com\/publications\/CAAqBwgKMLG0nwswvr63Aw\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\">Google News<\/a><\/span>\u00a0too, click on the star and choose us from your favorites.<\/span><\/strong><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<blockquote>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">For forums sites go to <span style=\"color: #ff9900;\"><a style=\"color: #ff9900;\" href=\"https:\/\/forum.buradabiliyorum.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Forum.BuradaBiliyorum.Com<\/a><\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<blockquote>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong>If you want to read more Like this articles, you can visit our <span style=\"color: #ff9900;\"><a style=\"color: #ff9900;\" href=\"https:\/\/en.buradabiliyorum.com\/social-media\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Social Media category.<\/a><\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: black;\"><a style=\"color: #ff9900;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.thefader.com\/2023\/02\/09\/john-cale-mercy-the-fader-interview-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Source<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&#8220;John Cale remains in flux&#8221; John Cale remains in flux The Velvet Underground co-founder and lifelong iconoclast shares wisdom on the avant garde\u2019s past and future on the latest episode of The FADER Interview. By Raphael Helfand Madeline McManus John Cale has always been a step ahead. He was post-rock while rock was still finding&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":550240,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"fifu_image_url":"https:\/\/thefader-res.cloudinary.com\/private_images\/c_limit,w_1024\/c_crop,h_467,w_897,x_1,y_174,f_auto,q_auto:eco\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_a0lxxq\/John-Cale-1-PC-Madeline-McManus_a0lxxq.jpg","fifu_image_alt":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[17],"tags":[87515,72289,75360,105545],"class_list":["post-550239","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-social-mediaa","tag-experimental","tag-john-cale","tag-podcast","tag-the-fader-interview"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/550239","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=550239"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/550239\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/550240"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=550239"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=550239"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=550239"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}