{"id":644278,"date":"2024-11-15T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-11-15T09:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/en.buradabiliyorum.com\/ai-trained-in-werner-herzogs-works-wrote-murder-mystery-doc-about-a-hero-starring-vicky-krieps\/"},"modified":"2024-11-15T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2024-11-15T09:00:00","slug":"ai-trained-in-werner-herzogs-works-wrote-murder-mystery-doc-about-a-hero-starring-vicky-krieps","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/ai-trained-in-werner-herzogs-works-wrote-murder-mystery-doc-about-a-hero-starring-vicky-krieps\/","title":{"rendered":"#AI Trained in Werner Herzog\u2019s Works Wrote Murder Mystery Doc \u2018About a Hero,\u2019 Starring Vicky Krieps"},"content":{"rendered":"
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\n\tWerner Herzog travel<\/a>s to Getunkirchenburg to investigate the death after a local factory worker named Dorem Clery dies under mysterious circumstances in Piotr Winiewicz\u2019s feature film debut About a Hero<\/em>. Vicky Krieps also stars, and Stephen Fry app<\/a>ears. \u201cBut Herzog, our narrator, is not who he seems, and the film is not what we expect\u2026,\u201d a synopsis cautions. After all, \u201cAbout a Hero<\/em> is an adaptation of a script written by an AI trained on Herzog\u2019s body of work. The fictional narrative it produced, ironically self-reflective, is intertwined with a series<\/a> of interviews with artists, philosophers, and scientists reflecting on the notion of originality, authenticity, immortality, and the soul in the age of AI.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tThe movie is an exploration of a past Herzog comment about technologies\u2019 role in filmmaking: \u201cA computer will not make a film as good as mine in 4,500 years.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tAbout a Hero<\/em>, a production by Tambo Film, Pressman Film, and AI company Kaspar, is being sold by Film Constellation, lands at a time when AI is a big focus topic in Hollywood and beyond. It is getting its world premiere on Friday as the opening film of the International Documentary Film Festival Amsterdam\u00a0(IDFA), which runs Nov. 14-24.<\/p>\n

\n\tArtist and filmmaker Winiewicz talked to THR<\/em>\u2018s Georg Szalai about the long creative journey of the movie, Herzog\u2019s role, what the experience with the film and technology<\/a> taught him about AI, and what might be next for him.<\/p>\n

\n\tHow did you come up with the idea for the film? Do you have a big interest in technology?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tI didn\u2019t have that much to do with the technology, but I found it quite fascinating. For me, the starting point was when Google introduced Google Compose, which was this auto-complete that was learning from you. And I think it was writing maybe 60 percent of my emails. It was just funny that at some point I realized that nobody even questioned that. We just took it for granted. So then, I wanted to more and more do something with technology. Lo and behold, Werner says that no machine will ever make a film as good as mine in 4,500 years. And I was thinking about how the world will look in 4,500 years. <\/p>\n

\n\tBut those were just reflections, existential reflections. We have this feeling that we\u2019re so superior, but at the same time, I was experiencing that the technology was mimicking who I am and doing a pretty good job. So I had this question: Can we reverse this process? So there was this Werner Herzog quote from the beginning, but it took time. The idea was conceptual but I knew we would need to focus.<\/p>\n

\n\tBut then it was like: let\u2019s just focus on Werner Herzog because if we are talking about patterns and how those patterns translate, he is likely the filmmaker with probably the largest, most extensive filmography, with a very distinct voice, very distinct accent and vocabulary. And he\u2019s a writer and has written loads of books. So, it just made so much sense. But it\u2019s just thinking about his quote \u2013 it was definitely not [taking on the quote as] a challenge. It would be stupid to try to make your first film and can go against probably one of the greatest filmmakers. <\/p>\n

\n\tHow did you find the AI company and software Kaspar?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tThe Enigma of Kaspar Hauser<\/em> was one of my favorite films from Werner Herzog. It still is. I probably had more fascination with language than with technology. It\u2019s the language of cinema. But there is also this clear connection between language and large language models. But I\u2019m not a programmer myself. I was quite lucky that I was already working with one of the producers who was very much into technology and had loads of experience with different experiments. So we decided to develop the project together but this technology was not there yet. But then we started working with Esbern (Kaspersen, who is one of the executive producers on the film). He was a machine learning engineer who is responsible for training all the models. It was a funny process because we had to learn each other\u2019s vocabulary \u2013\u00a0we had to teach him film vocabulary, and he had to teach us programming and technology vocabulary. So it was this process of learning and dialog. And then we ended up actually starting a company that co-produces the film. <\/p>\n

\n\tIt was a difficult and extensive process. It was not exactly a conventional way of making a film. We got lots of research grants and developed different experiments and artistic projects throughout that helped us to develop the technology that we needed for the film. It was a long process. I remember talking to some producers who were afraid that the project would turn into a PhD because it sounded like an academic project. And now, six years later, it is a long PhD. But lots of things have happened, and the technology has developed, and the discussion has changed. <\/p>\n

\n\tIs there a key prompt or input that was key to getting Kaspar to come up with a script?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tThere was not one prompt that turned into a script. It was not: write me a script. It was actually a lengthy process, and it was getting edited. Because the machine learning engineers were training the model and trying things out, some things failed. After some months, we tried to test it. And then it\u2019s not a chat \u2013 you just had to write something, and there would be just a waterfall of words and sentences. There was this text that (one of the engineers) showed us the next day, and we were like: \u201cwow, that\u2019s actually impressive.\u201d That was 2018, 2019.<\/p>\n

\n\tAnd the text said: \u201cThis is a movie about a hero dreaming up surprisingly ordinary dreams.\u201d Not only do you sort of hear Werner because that notion of dreams is so present, but then it\u2019s also just quite a great sentence. There was this waterfall. It produced so much text. And there were all those theories about what happened to the (dead character) because (the AI) never repeats itself. So there was lots of contradiction. <\/p>\n

\n\tSo, then we started working on, editing the script, me and an actual scriptwriter, Anna Juul. We were basically editing it second to second to make it coherent. To some extent, the fictional narrative is also an expression of this investigation that we went through just to find out what\u2019s going on there. <\/p>\n

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\t\t\t\t\tPiotr Winiewicz while shooting \u2018About a Hero,\u2019 courtesy of Bernd Hermes<\/span><\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of Bernd Hermes<\/cite><\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n

\n\tAs a native German speaker, I immedia<\/a>tely thought Getunkirchenburg was a made-up place. But I must admit: the film makes you wonder so much about what is real and what isn\u2019t that I ended up Googling just to make sure it wasn\u2019t a real town after all\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tThat was a fascinating part. With technology now, most of the models, such as ChatGPT, are quite predictable. You ask and you get what you want. It\u2019s one way or another. But here it was like you just never knew what was coming. We\u2019ve also been checking if those people don\u2019t exist and those places don\u2019t exist. There was something original about it, like these weird dreams that were more like nightmares. So, it was this quite fun process.<\/p>\n

\n\tDid you use AI technology in production or post-production?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tI don\u2019t want to sort of spoil it, because I kind of like this idea that people don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

\n\tFrom the beginning, we knew that we needed to create a coherent visual style because we knew that there would be documentary layers and fictional layers. So it was really important that it has this coherent visual language. The film is somehow intentionally fragmented, but there is music that binds it and the visual style.<\/p>\n

\n\tAnd I wanted it to have an artificial feeling. But I think it\u2019s quite funny that things have changed so much since we started, and even from last year to now. People now watch it and ask: is that generated?<\/p>\n

\n\tYou have some big names in the films, such as Vicky Krieps and Stephen Fry. How did they get involved?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tThis film was such a journey, and these things just happened. We spoke to (media theorist, philosopher, and art critic) Boris Groys, and I think he is my favorite writer. So that was important to me. Vicky is my favorite actor. We started working with Pressman Film, because it\u2019s an American co-production. And that is a company that did so many films that I love \u2013 American Psycho<\/em>, Wall Street<\/em>, Badlands<\/em>, and films by Brian De Palma. So it was Sam (Pressman) who introduced me to Vicky. And we talked about the project, and then we ended up working together because I also like design, and she was doing this art installation in Los Angeles. So there was just this weird connection. And everybody came with some sort of curiosity.<\/p>\n

\n\tThere was a Stephen Fry-like character in the script. But then I actually ended up meeting Stephen in L.A. because he actually talks so much about AI and we just spent so much time talking about it. So I don\u2019t know how, but it all just happened. There were just lots of intuitions. And I\u2019m really glad that a lot of people trusted me \u2013 there were so many lovely people. Vicky and I talked a lot because she believes that things happen to her. And there was a chain of events that happened. It was this weird network of events. I think the film is also, to some extent, this symbolic network of things that people connect to or people don\u2019t connect to. Maybe that\u2019s what makes it a documentary because everything was the documentation of this weird process.<\/p>\n

\n\tWhat was Werner Herzog\u2019s role? There is a scene early in the film with a recording of him allowing you to train the AI on his works\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tThat was really important to me. And it is real this audio message from 2018 when we decided that we\u2019d work on this. We got this audio memo back because his son, who I also know, was shooting with him a film. We got this memo where he says it\u2019s gonna fail, which was a great start. It was important for us to be in a dialog. We met a few times: before we were shooting, when we started editing, and most recently when we showed him the film. So it\u2019s like we\u2019ve been in a discussion, which was really nice, because, of course, he remains skeptical. But he was very generous in sharing his experience with me and a lot of tips.<\/p>\n

\n\tWhat were some of Werner Herzog\u2019s key tips? <\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tHow important the casting is. And don\u2019t spend too much time editing. That didn\u2019t work out that well, because it was a quite complex editing process.<\/p>\n

\n\tWhat did you learn about AI in filmmaking from making this movie?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tI\u2019ve learned a lot. As I mentioned, the film was never meant to be a challenge. I also don\u2019t think the film is a statement, a personal statement. I think the film is a sort of dialog. It was about these dualities \u2013 on one hand, we should be skeptical about this technology. The same technology is used in fake news<\/a>, misinformation, and algorithms that create our opinions but also in warfare and in conflicts and arms trades. So there are serious consequences. But then there is this duality, and I like that it is complex, to the film. In creativity, we can produce a lot of great films, and we have so many great filmmakers. But we also produce a lot of generic things. AI and technology are not the problem. It\u2019s the people who use the technologies, and the questions of who owns or who runs them, that are going to be a bigger problem than the AI. Purely analytical algorithms, I would probably trust more than the President(-elect) of the United States.<\/p>\n

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\n\tPiotr Winiewicz while shooting \u2018About a Hero,\u2019 courtesy of Bernd Hermes<\/p>\n

\n\tI must quickly ask you about this sex scene involving a toaster\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tThere was so much discussion before we shot the scene. But it was funny because we wanted to play with the clich\u00e9s. Because, of course, those (AI) models are biased. They are racist and sexist. And the history of cinema is pretty racist and sexist, so we were thinking about things like that.<\/p>\n

\n\tIt\u2019s quite a long story with this scene, and I don\u2019t want to spoil too much. It sounds funny on paper, but we just took so much time. Because it was also a question of whether I should direct the scene or not and how it should be directed. We discussed things like: is it sex or is it masturbation? Do you make sounds when you masturbate? Who\u2019s shooting it? It it going to be a male gaze? Do we want to make it personal? And how can I do it respectfully? I guess the result is just a mixture of those discussions.<\/p>\n

\n\tDo you have any new film projects in the works?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\tWhen we watched the film with Werner, he told me: \u201cYou have to make a normal film now. You need to make a movie movie.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tWith Pressman Film, I am working on a romantic comedy. It\u2019s a dark one, but I think there will be lots of fun making it. There is a writer on it, so we\u2019re developing it together. But it\u2019s still quite early. <\/p>\n

\n\tI\u2019m also working on a documentary, but I can\u2019t tell you much about it.<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n

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Source<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Werner Herzog travels to Getunkirchenburg to investigate the death after a local factory worker named Dorem Clery dies under mysterious circumstances in Piotr Winiewicz\u2019s feature film debut About a Hero. Vicky Krieps also stars, and Stephen Fry appears. \u201cBut Herzog, our narrator, is not who he seems, and the film is not what we expect\u2026,\u201d…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":644279,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"fifu_image_url":"https:\/\/www.hollywoodreporter.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/About-a-Hero.jpg?w=1440&h=810&crop=1","fifu_image_alt":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[17],"tags":[140529,147048,124783,140575,107509],"class_list":["post-644278","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-social-mediaa","tag-artifical-intelligence","tag-idfa","tag-international","tag-stephen-fry","tag-vicky-krieps"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/644278","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=644278"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/644278\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/644279"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=644278"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=644278"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/buradabiliyorum.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=644278"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}